First of all the title got you curious didn't it? *laughing*
Secondly.... where was this woman when I was a kid?
A California legislator has announced that she hasn't written it yet...BUT she intends to.....soon....very very soon.....[are you on the edge of your seat?] She intends to write a bill that proposes limits on spanking.
She wants California to be the first state in the nation to pass a law making it illegal for parents to spank their children. If the law passes it will make spanking any children under the age of 3 a misdemeanor. With penaties that could include child rearing classes or up to one year of jail time.
Jail time? Are they serious? Just the mention of the bill has sparked heated commentary from legislators as well as parents. One person suggested that they pass a bill making it ok for parents to smack other parents of undisciplined children. *laughing* I think I could actually support that one.
Since the suggestion of the Bill was mentioned publicly, the office of its sponsor has been "inundated" with calls. She stated that most of the calls concerning the bill were negative and against such legislation. She said she found this attitude puzzling because the bill only covers the states youngest most vulnerable children. She further stated that she has to question why our society holds so tightly to physical discipline among the very young. "We're very addicted to violence" she says.
Addicted to violence? And you think the way to curb that addiction is to stop spanking our kids? Really now?
My mom got spanked when she was a kid so far she seems to have managed to stay on this side of the law. Although she has on occasion wanted to put some of the young men I have dated in shallow holes in our back yard....But in all fairness to her...they were asses and she had a point. So does that even count?
I myself got spanked on occasion when I was a kid. My mom never beat me with anything. She used her flat palm of her hand on my soft tushy bottom. As a matter of fact, I think that during my entire childhood I might have received only 5 such spankings.
However..I would like to point out..that I wasn't a stupid child either. My mom was very good at teaching me the concept of "cause and effect". If I "caused" her a problem or embarrassment...the "effect" would be that I would wish I hadn't. I honestly believe that part of what kept me from doing more stupid things as a child was that healthy intimidation she instilled in me.
She made it clear to me early in my life that the word "NO" was not a negotiation tactic on her part. If she said No to me about something.....No is exactly what she meant. It didn't mean maybe...or keep asking until you wear me down. It meant "NO" and if you keep asking me "causing" me grief...the "effect" side of things would come into play.
She never wanted to hear the words..."But so and so's mom lets her do it". She made it quite clear that she was MY mom and SHE was the only person who's authority or opinions I needed to concern myself with. She never allowed me to use my friends for my excuses or alibis. Such as..I'm sorry mom...But Megan was driving I cant help it we were late. She didn't want to hear excuses.....She explained that I was responsible for my own activities and I was well aware of the rules I had to go by. If I knew my ride wasn't going to get me home on time..I had better call her and make other arrangements to get home. She gave me a curfew...and I was allowed to come home early....but late..even 5 minutes late wasn't an option.
If my plans changed when I was out in any way.....I had better give her a phone call with an update. I was never ever to make her worry about me or wonder where I was. These things were not negotiable. EVER!
My mom didn't have to spank me because I knew the rules. I knew the consequences for breaking the rules. And if I had a lapse in memory or judgment..she had this look she gave me that said very clearly "I'm this close to going terminator on you so knock it off". She never had to do it...I never tested it out..never wanted to. I had known the woman all my life and had no doubt it wasn't an empty threat.
Now just so we are clear....I don't think an infant understands or knows what spanking is. A very small child is all about its basic needs...food.....sleep....dry clothing...affection. But if by the age of two you haven't started teaching your child the word NO...then YOU ARE screwing up. I'm not advocating hitting a child with things...I'm not advocating hitting a child with fists or hitting a child in anger or in a manner that could be considered beating them. Lets use simple common sense here.
But I don't think its necessary to legislate to parents what type of discipline they feel is appropriate for their own children. If you think that violence is an issue in society...Then find a way to address violence. Do it in the music you listen to or the games you play or the movies you watch. If you think that people need to be taught how to behave with their kids...then make it a law they have to actually raise them and interact with them if you think you can.
Because I have to tell you...As strict as my mom was with me about some things....I have never had any doubt that she loved me. She told me all the time..she showed me often in many different ways. She has always been there for me, involved in every aspect of my life from the time I was very small up to now. I will admit there have been times when I would have liked to be adopted..she got on ALL my nerves. But I also know that if I need an honest answer or someone to help me up if I fall...day or night...my mom is the one I call.
13 comments:
Ill be honest too:
I READ IT ALL... AND LOVED IT!!: )
I was a spanked child myself- and even though I wish I were able to count how many times I WAS spanked, I dont think that is humanly possible!!
(shrug)
I GUESS MAGGIE WAS REAL KEEN ON DISCIPLINE.
But back to the point- we are living in a society that is warped and messed up precisely because the State has decided to play "nanny" for so long.
Government is there to make sure roads are paved and that essential services are delivered to the tax-paying public.
NOT TO PLAY PARENT TO EACH AND EVERY CITIZEN (AND ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT).
Because bottom line is- NOBODY knows whats better for a child than a parent. Every case has its merits, and naturally, if that said child IS actually being abused (and I mean in the strictest sense) then the State may intervene by all means.
But when the unfortunate day comes where I am to procreate and deliver my spawn unto the world (as is foretold in the ancient scrolls), DAMN STRAIGHT Im gonna give him/her hidings. And will continue to do so until they demonstrate (as you did) that they understand the "cause and effect" philosophy...
AND VOTE REPUBLICAN : )
I agree that parents should be allowed to spank their children.
Children, particularly under 3 have difficulty understanding when a behaviour is wrong, or even dangerous to themselves. A spank is a quick, effective way of teaching them.
I think everyone here realises that there is a difference between a spank, and physically violent abuse. The latter of course should be, and is, illegal.
However, I'm all for educating parents to learn better methods of discipline. Some parents just don't seem to make any effort whatsoever.
edge
First of all the best way in my ever so humble opinion to be a good parent is to want to be one.
Having the desire to actually spend time with your kids and sincerly enjoy it is half the battle. To actually have a strong sense of desire to raise healthy humanbeings and take the job of being someones parent extremely seriously goes a long way to raising good kids.
YOU do that...and very little spanking is required.
Adrian
Since I know you as well as I do...I will have to say its a given Maggie had no choice but to "lay hands on you".
And youre right...NO ONE is advocating abuse here. Of course children need to be protected from that type of violence against them no matter the source.
But any reasonable human being should be able to distinguish between parental displine and abusive behavior.
They need to exersise some common sense here!
Richie
I agree with you completely about everything you said except...the parenting courses.
I believe that if you want children that you have to have the actual desire to be with them and raise them yourself. Its not like getting a dog and then realising that you dont have time to play with a pet.
Children are being raised to become healthy adults who will in turn run the world and produce more healthy adults if raised properly. Its a big job and one people need to take seriously.
But having said all that...If a parent just wants to be a good parent to their kid...And actually puts in the physical time to be with their kids and be involved...then most parents instinctively know what their child needs.
You dont discipline a child out of anger..You should being doing so because you love your child and you know that they need to learn rules and rights and wrongs and to protect themselves.
Seems to me if you do that..why would you need a stranger telling you how to interact with your own child?
But youre going to be a Dad..You tell me.
Our moms sound pretty similar. There is a big difference between spanking and beating and there are already laws against beating.
I don't think spanking is the best way to emphasize every point (ie, your child hit someone, so you spank them to teach them hitting is wrong...) I also know some parents who tried everything else and the only thing that got the kids attention was spanking.
With my mom, she never even spanked very hard, but she got her point across and she only had to do it a few times.
I do think people shouldn't be allowed to spank in public- I think you need to take your kid to the bathroom, the car, somewhere at least semi-private so you can do what you need to do and explain it to them at the same time. Because even if you don't spank hard the kid is probably crying and screaming and acting like you're killing them.
Megan
My mom was and still is of the opinion that if I was going to embarrass her in public by behaving badly..that I was going to be disciplined in the same manner. She wasnt one of those wait till your father gets home kind of moms.
Now I suppose there were occasions where to keep from annoying others around her she was considerate enough to move me to a private location. But to be really honest...I was one of those kids who would have been mortified if she had yelled at me in public let alone spank me.
All she had to do was give me this firm quiet tone in her voice and I knew that I was this close to her letting me have it. If I was then reckless enough to push it..She didnt care who was standing there..she would put me in my place.
The only time she held her tongue...was if the child belonged to someone else..and then that was only to a point. If the parents in question didnt attempt to do anything..and they were with us..she told them to knock it off or she would. If it made the mom of that child upset..so be it.
Jen: My point is that there are parents who don't seem to make any effort at discpline, and their kids cause problems for everyone else.
There is a technical, psychological term for these parents: the term is "stupid". (I hope I spelled that right; these technical terms always confuse me.)
Anyway, these "stupid" parents need a good spanking.
You should send that into the woman who proposed such legislation. That is excellently written with great support. I concur on all of your points. I even went to a private high school that still had corporal punishment. It is a VERY effective deterrent. The occasional whack to set as boundary helped me stay on the path of success also.
Does she think if I go to jail for spanking a 2 year old, It will decrease violence? She ought to go visit a jail & see what happens in there, especially to people with arrests for child related offenses.
People would have to start carrying birth certificates. Excuse me, ma'am. I just saw you spank your child, and I am going to have to call the police.
Sir, here's his birth certificate. He turned 3 last week so it's okay for me to crack him. In fact, I've held it in for 3 years so I will beat him silly now.
Besides, when did laws against domestic violence (the abuse of children we would want to STOP)ever work? We already have them.
If they are serious, take the domestic violence offenders who have been convicted and operate on them to prevent any additional children. That, and take the parents out to the end of the pier with a night stick like in the olden days.
A tip from Mother Nature
Ever see a mom cat cuff her kitten or a mom dog bare her teeth to her puppy?
Danger Will Robinson.....Do Not Proceed.
Nuff said.
A tangle of laws. Not helpful. Just more complicated
I find "ceremonial" spanking weird. (naked butt on mummies leggs) I don't really know if I could slap a kid. I guess it comes naturally when he starts to be anoying.
Richie
You are right...there are a lot of lazy parents out there. They say no but they dont mean it. The lay down rules but dont make their kids follow them.
Kids arent stupid...they learn very quickly that its all talk and no action. That mom and dads rules and Nos mean nothing.
If you are waiting until little Bevis is 5 years old before you think its time to tell NO or give him some boundries..then you have waited 4 1/2 years to long. Even the smallest child when they start moving around and exploring their world can learn what NO means.
I suppose there are exceptions to every rule and you may find a child here and there who is overly..."active"
*cough cough...adrian*
But for the most part I think just being consistant does the job.
Rat
LMAO @ "People would have to start carrying birth certificates. Excuse me, ma'am. I just saw you spank your child, and I am going to have to call the police.
Sir, here's his birth certificate. He turned 3 last week so it's okay for me to crack him. In fact, I've held it in for 3 years so I will beat him silly now".
Back when I was younger..I used to tell my mom that Id call the child abuse people when she would be nagging me about doing something for her. She knew I was being a smartass and had no intentions of doing anything like that...But her comments to me still hit home..She said...go ahead and call them..but remember if Im going to be arrested for it..I plan on making it worth my while.
Thats all I needed to know...that number was no longer on my speed dial. :)
Mammabear
Well you raised a kid whos become a pretty great man. I guess you know what youre doing.
:)
john-jack
According to my mom...ALL kids annoy their parents. She said that you have to resist the urge to slap them just for annoying you and save it for just the big stuff. Otherwise youd be slapping them all the time. lol
I dont' agree with spanking. I just dont'. My mom never did it, well she did once, when I kept running out in front of cars, but she never had to spank me. She used a fear of the unknown to keep me in line.. If I misbehaved in the store, she'd grab my arm firmly and say slowly and evenly in a low tone. "If you dont' behave, We're going to the car and straight home."
I always knew that's when she was really ticked. I didn't know what would happen if I had to go home (probably sit in a chair, do chores while she told me why I did something wrong) But in my imagination, it was always scarier. So really she didn't have to spank me, because that low even tone was enough to whip me into shape
-hulabelly
Yep. E was a very fiesty kid. Triple Scorpio---God help me. I remember one time when he would not stay in his crib (yes....CRIB) even then he kept late hours. Ha!
Chased him back to bed about 8 times. Tired, cranky, and I had just had it.....Got the old wooden spoon out of the drawer and chased him back to his room. Those two big thumps wacking his diaper made a very loud sound and probably only hurt his tiny (read BIG) ego. It was probably harder on me than him. But he did catch on to the idea that it was about boundaries and who was in control.
kids seek and need boundaries to be happy.
Im going to go out and spank someones child RIGHT NOW.
JUST FOR FUN
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